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Size: 2869
Comment:
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Size: 10481
Comment: Trains: return route via Brussels with longer (but 1 more) changes
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| Deletions are marked like this. | Additions are marked like this. |
| Line 12: | Line 12: |
| 2011-07-22 | Friday 2011-07-22 |
| Line 20: | Line 20: |
| 2011-07-23 | Saturday 2011-07-23 |
| Line 27: | Line 27: |
| === Trip back: alternate route === 2011-07-31 |
=== Trip back: reverse route === Sunday 2011-07-31 |
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| 2011-08-01 | Monday 2011-08-01 |
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| Say so!) | Say so! Could include a quick run through Luxembourg if we want, for very little extra time/distance.) |
| Line 44: | Line 44: |
| I'm expecting fuel costs of ~GBP 300 for the trip; ferries cost ~GBP 90 for a car including 4 passengers. And there are 2 overnight hotel stops: |
'''Sledge:''' I'm expecting fuel costs of ~GBP 400 for the trip, plus tolls etc. for maybe ~GBP 100; ferries cost ~GBP 100 for a car including 4 passengers. And there are 2 overnight hotel stops: |
| Line 47: | Line 47: |
| I'm estimating a cost per person of *roughly* GBP 250 to GBP 300 | I'm estimating a cost per person of *roughly* GBP 300 to GBP 350 |
| Line 52: | Line 52: |
Insurance will be interesting: most UK insurers won't cover Bosnia, it seems. However, there are apparently insurance brokers at the border crossings from Croatia. Various sites also suggest that an International Driving Permit is a good plan. DanielSilverstone estimated per-person for his car at approx 200+hotels/food so slightly cheaper than Sledge's due to slightly newer engine and slightly less leaden foot. Flights looked to be around 250/person excl. local travel at either end, or other incurred expenses. A more reasoned calculation by Daniel reached the all-in cost of roughly 300 GBP/person assuming 4-up in Daniel's car, but starting from Manchester and using Eurotunnel, thusly different fuel and channel-crossing costs. |
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| Line 60: | Line 69: |
| || NeilMcGovern || Maulkin || Yes || Cambridge || Yes ||Mazda MX-5, space for one passenger + Luggage (if you can pack light!) || ||AndySimpkins || Rattusrattus || No || Southampton || Yes ||BMW 3-series estate, space for 4 people || ||DavidLeggett || Serbitar || No || Southampton || No - Can't drive ||With Rattus || || NeilWilliams || codehelp || Yes || Cambridge || Yes || Toyota MR2, space for one passenger if luggage goes in another car || || DanielSilverstone || Kinnison || Yes || Manchester || Yes || VW Passat Estate. Space for 3+driver, one of those may be reserved already. || || EnricoZini || enrico || Yes || Manchester || Yes (Italian driving license) || with Kinnison, still considering my options, will confirm before march 23 || |
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| Line 63: | Line 78: |
| (in case people would like to do that) | Easiest route seems to be: London - Paris - Munich - Zagreb - Banja Luka Use www.bahn.de to get information up to Zagreb. Times between Zagreb and Banja Luka are available here: http://www.zfbh.ba/zfbhenx/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=56&Itemid=91 (Bosnian railways website as found on seat61; then select "Passenger traffic" and "International trains"; don't bother trying to book online or looking for a journey planner; the website is incomplete). In the return direction journey takes about 26 hours; the Munich-Zagreb leg is a sleeper train. You may want to get together with other Debconf attendees to share a sleeper cabin. According to www.seat61.com (the standard reference website for this kind of thing) the Zagreb-Banja Luka trains cost Eur30 for Zagreb-Sarajevo, so it will be less than that, and you can buy the ticket in Zagreb. Paris-Munich and Munich-Zagreb can be booked at www.bahn.de, and are best bought as singles on the day bookings open, to get good prices; bookings open 92 days in advance. Total cost will be a few hundred euros each way. Eurostar should be booked separately via the Eurostar website, after checking that www.bahn.de do not have a special offer for the connection you intend to make (they do sometimes have some very good deals from London). Eurostar tickets are cheaper if bought as returns; bookings open 120 days in advance. UK domestic train timetables are only available 12 weeks in advance, which is shorter than the booking horizon for the other trains. So you will have to book your international trains before knowing what the situation is with the UK domestic services, and book the domestic trains later. If you buy a non-flexible domestic ticket make sure that it is to "London International (CIV)" as otherwise if your international trains are delayed and you miss your UK train, your UK train company is likely to insist that your ticket is invalid and you should buy a full price walk-up fare. Ian Jackson has posted his schedule to the debian-devel and debian-uk lists: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/03/msg00769.html === Example itineraries === ==== Outbound via Zagreb ==== Three changes and seven countries: Eurostar via Paris, then choice of overnight leg; either Paris to Munich, or Munich to Zagreb sleepers: || 11:32 Fri || 16:02 Fri || '''London''' St Pancras || || __14:47__ || __19:17__ || '''Paris''' Gare du Nord || ||<-3:> ''walk 500 metres'' || || 15:24 || 20:20 Fri || '''Paris''' Gare de l'Est || || __21:36__ || __07:16__ Sat ||<|2(>'''Munich''' Hbf || || 23:40 Fri || 08:27 || || __08:40__ Sat || __17:10__ ||<|2(> '''Zagreb''' (Glavni Kolod.) || || 08:53 ## || 21:24 Sat || || __13:09__ Sat || __01:43__ Sun || '''Banja Luka''' || ## This is a tight connection, particularly as you'll have to buy a ticket too. If you miss this the next train is the 2124. There may be a bus as an alternative. Or, you could plan to spend the day in Zagreb. ==== Return via Zagreb ==== Overnight either Bosnia to Zagreb and Munich to Paris/Cologne, ''or'' Zagreb to Munich and daytime back via Brussels. ||<-3(> 02:21 Sun ||<-3(> 15:49 Sun * || '''Banja Luka''' || ||<-3(> __06:44__ ||<-3(> __20:09__ ||<|2(> '''Zagreb''' Glavni Kolod. || ||<-3(> 12:30 ||<-3(> 21:15 Sun * || ||<-3(> __21:33__ ||<-3(> __06:15__ Mon ||<|2(> '''Munich''' Hbf || || 22:43 Sun || 22:43 Sun || 22:43 Sun || 06:50 || 06:20 # || 07:27 * || ||<:> | ||<:> | ||<:> | || __10:04__ ||<:> | ||<:> | ||<|2(> '''Frankfurt''' Hbf || ||<:> | ||<:> | ||<:> | || 10:16 ||<:> | ||<:> | || ||<:> | || __05:56__ Mon ||<:> | ||<:> | ||<:> | || __12:05__ ||<|2(> '''Cologne''' Hbf || ||<:> | || 06:44 ||<:> | || 11:43 ||<:> | || 12:43 * || || __06:17__ Mon ||<:> | ||<:> | ||<:> | ||<:> | ||<:> | ||<|2(> '''Metz''' Ville || || 06:49 ||<:> | ||<:> | ||<:> | ||<:> | ||<:> | || || __08:19__ ||<:> | || __09:23__ Mon ||<:> | || __12:34__ ||<:> | || '''Paris''' Gare de l'Est || || 09:13 ||<:> | || 11:13 ||<:> | || 14:13 ||<:> | || '''Paris''' Gare du Nord || ||<:> | || __08:32__ ||<:> | || __13:35__ ||<:> | || __14:32__ ||<|2(> '''Brussels''' Midi-Zuid || ||<:> | || 09:59 ||<:> | || 14:29 ||<:> | || 15:59 * || || __10:34__ Mon || __10:56__ Mon || __12:29__ Mon || __15:26__ Mon || __15:29__ Mon || __17:03__ Mon || '''London''' St Pancras || # This is a very tight connection but there are lots of other connections. Ask bahn.de for trains from Munich to London and pick a set of trains you like. * Ian Jackson will be on this train. |
| Line 66: | Line 136: |
Looking at the page at http://debconf11.debconf.org/travel.xhtml (and trying online too!), there are no useful flights to Banja Luka from the UK. Expedia says FAIL. Flying to Zagreb in Croatia and getting a bus for ~3 hours is suggested. Looking at that on Expedia, there are direct flights from LHR to ZAG from GBP250 ish, or GBP200 ish with a connection in Germany. No idea how much the bus will cost... |
Probably a good number of UK DDs heading to Banja Luka this year.
1. Road trip
Sledge: I'm thinking of organising a road trip for travelling to Banja Luka in July for Debconf 11. If you're interested in joining me, please add yourself below. The details so far are:
See http://j.mp/hxMx3g for the route planner I'm using
All times approximate and in local time
1.1. Trip out: dash down through France, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina !
Friday 2011-07-22
- ~04:00 Leave Cambridge and drive to Dover
- 06:00 Ferry from Dover to Calais, landing ~8:30
- 08:30 Drive across France, Belgium, Netherlands, enter Germany.
- 12:30 Stop somewhere around Cologne for lunch
- 13:30 Continue south and east, cross into Austria
- 20:00 Stop in Graz for the night
Saturday 2011-07-23
- 11:00 Leave Graz, head into Slovenia then Croatia
- 14:00 Stop somewhere around Zagreb for lunch
- 18:00 Head on to Bosnia, get to Banja Luka (depends on time spent for lunch etc.)
1.2. Debconf!
1.3. Trip back: reverse route
Sunday 2011-07-31
- 06:00 Leave Banja Luka early morning. Head back through Bosnia, Croatia, Austria, Germany
- 13:00 Stop somewhere near Regensburg for lunch
- 14:00 Head on through Germany
- 20:00 Stop in Brussels for the night
Monday 2011-08-01
- 11:00 Leave Brussels, cross Belgium and France.
- 14:00 Catch Ferry from Calais to Dover
- 14:30 Head back from Dover
16:30 Arrive in Cambridge and sleep
(or there's an alternative route we could do on one leg of the trip, heading further south and avoiding Belgium and the Netherlands. Very slightly further, but will add some variation. Interested? Say so! Could include a quick run through Luxembourg if we want, for very little extra time/distance.)
Sledge: I'm expecting fuel costs of ~GBP 400 for the trip, plus tolls etc. for maybe ~GBP 100; ferries cost ~GBP 100 for a car including 4 passengers. And there are 2 overnight hotel stops: 1 out and 1 back. Assuming reasonable prices for sharing hotel rooms, I'm estimating a cost per person of *roughly* GBP 300 to GBP 350 per person for the travel. It'll probably be more expensive than the train or plane options, but it includes more sight-seeing across Europe plus the flexibility to do stuff while we're down there. I'm in for the road trip, and Jo says she is too.
Insurance will be interesting: most UK insurers won't cover Bosnia, it seems. However, there are apparently insurance brokers at the border crossings from Croatia. Various sites also suggest that an International Driving Permit is a good plan.
DanielSilverstone estimated per-person for his car at approx 200+hotels/food so slightly cheaper than Sledge's due to slightly newer engine and slightly less leaden foot. Flights looked to be around 250/person excl. local travel at either end, or other incurred expenses. A more reasoned calculation by Daniel reached the all-in cost of roughly 300 GBP/person assuming 4-up in Daniel's car, but starting from Manchester and using Eurotunnel, thusly different fuel and channel-crossing costs.
1.4. Interested people
I'm wanting to book by the middle of April, so don't take too long.
Name |
Nick |
DD? |
Location |
Willing and able to drive? |
Car available? |
Sledge |
Yes |
Cambridge |
Yes |
BMW 3-series estate, space for 4 people |
|
Randombird |
No |
Cambridge |
Yes |
with Sledge |
|
Maulkin |
Yes |
Cambridge |
Yes |
Mazda MX-5, space for one passenger + Luggage (if you can pack light!) |
|
Rattusrattus |
No |
Southampton |
Yes |
BMW 3-series estate, space for 4 people |
|
Serbitar |
No |
Southampton |
No - Can't drive |
With Rattus |
|
codehelp |
Yes |
Cambridge |
Yes |
Toyota MR2, space for one passenger if luggage goes in another car |
|
Kinnison |
Yes |
Manchester |
Yes |
VW Passat Estate. Space for 3+driver, one of those may be reserved already. |
|
enrico |
Yes |
Manchester |
Yes (Italian driving license) |
with Kinnison, still considering my options, will confirm before march 23 |
2. Train
Easiest route seems to be: London - Paris - Munich - Zagreb - Banja Luka
Use www.bahn.de to get information up to Zagreb. Times between Zagreb and Banja Luka are available here: http://www.zfbh.ba/zfbhenx/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=56&Itemid=91 (Bosnian railways website as found on seat61; then select "Passenger traffic" and "International trains"; don't bother trying to book online or looking for a journey planner; the website is incomplete).
In the return direction journey takes about 26 hours; the Munich-Zagreb leg is a sleeper train. You may want to get together with other Debconf attendees to share a sleeper cabin.
According to www.seat61.com (the standard reference website for this kind of thing) the Zagreb-Banja Luka trains cost Eur30 for Zagreb-Sarajevo, so it will be less than that, and you can buy the ticket in Zagreb.
Paris-Munich and Munich-Zagreb can be booked at www.bahn.de, and are best bought as singles on the day bookings open, to get good prices; bookings open 92 days in advance. Total cost will be a few hundred euros each way.
Eurostar should be booked separately via the Eurostar website, after checking that www.bahn.de do not have a special offer for the connection you intend to make (they do sometimes have some very good deals from London). Eurostar tickets are cheaper if bought as returns; bookings open 120 days in advance.
UK domestic train timetables are only available 12 weeks in advance, which is shorter than the booking horizon for the other trains. So you will have to book your international trains before knowing what the situation is with the UK domestic services, and book the domestic trains later. If you buy a non-flexible domestic ticket make sure that it is to "London International (CIV)" as otherwise if your international trains are delayed and you miss your UK train, your UK train company is likely to insist that your ticket is invalid and you should buy a full price walk-up fare.
Ian Jackson has posted his schedule to the debian-devel and debian-uk lists: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/03/msg00769.html
2.1. Example itineraries
2.1.1. Outbound via Zagreb
Three changes and seven countries: Eurostar via Paris, then choice of overnight leg; either Paris to Munich, or Munich to Zagreb sleepers:
11:32 Fri |
16:02 Fri |
London St Pancras |
14:47 |
19:17 |
Paris Gare du Nord |
walk 500 metres |
||
15:24 |
20:20 Fri |
Paris Gare de l'Est |
21:36 |
07:16 Sat |
Munich Hbf |
23:40 Fri |
08:27 |
|
08:40 Sat |
17:10 |
Zagreb (Glavni Kolod.) |
08:53 ## |
21:24 Sat |
|
13:09 Sat |
01:43 Sun |
Banja Luka |
- ## This is a tight connection, particularly as you'll have to buy a ticket too. If you miss this the next train is the 2124. There may be a bus as an alternative. Or, you could plan to spend the day in Zagreb.
2.1.2. Return via Zagreb
Overnight either Bosnia to Zagreb and Munich to Paris/Cologne, or Zagreb to Munich and daytime back via Brussels.
02:21 Sun |
15:49 Sun * |
Banja Luka |
||||
06:44 |
20:09 |
Zagreb Glavni Kolod. |
||||
12:30 |
21:15 Sun * |
|||||
21:33 |
06:15 Mon |
Munich Hbf |
||||
22:43 Sun |
22:43 Sun |
22:43 Sun |
06:50 |
06:20 # |
07:27 * |
|
| |
| |
| |
10:04 |
| |
| |
Frankfurt Hbf |
| |
| |
| |
10:16 |
| |
| |
|
| |
05:56 Mon |
| |
| |
| |
12:05 |
Cologne Hbf |
| |
06:44 |
| |
11:43 |
| |
12:43 * |
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06:17 Mon |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
Metz Ville |
06:49 |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
|
08:19 |
| |
09:23 Mon |
| |
12:34 |
| |
Paris Gare de l'Est |
09:13 |
| |
11:13 |
| |
14:13 |
| |
Paris Gare du Nord |
| |
08:32 |
| |
13:35 |
| |
14:32 |
Brussels Midi-Zuid |
| |
09:59 |
| |
14:29 |
| |
15:59 * |
|
10:34 Mon |
10:56 Mon |
12:29 Mon |
15:26 Mon |
15:29 Mon |
17:03 Mon |
London St Pancras |
- # This is a very tight connection but there are lots of other connections. Ask bahn.de for trains from Munich to London and pick a set of trains you like. * Ian Jackson will be on this train.
3. Plane
Looking at the page at http://debconf11.debconf.org/travel.xhtml (and trying online too!), there are no useful flights to Banja Luka from the UK. Expedia says FAIL. Flying to Zagreb in Croatia and getting a bus for ~3 hours is suggested. Looking at that on Expedia, there are direct flights from LHR to ZAG from GBP250 ish, or GBP200 ish with a connection in Germany. No idea how much the bus will cost...