Diff for "DebconfTravel2011" - the.earth's UK Tech wiki

Differences between revisions 50 and 51

There will probably a good number of UK DDs heading to Banja Luka this year.

Suggested travel modes:

Car
Train
Plane

TheEarthWiki: DebconfTravel2011 (last edited 2011-04-14 12:36:48 by SteveMcIntyre)

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-== Road trip ==

'''Sledge:''' I'm thinking of organising a road trip for travelling to Banja Luka in July for Debconf 11. If you're interested in joining me, please add yourself below. The details so far are:

See http://j.mp/hxMx3g for the route planner I'm using

All times '''approximate''' and in local time

=== Trip out: dash down through France, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina ! ===
Friday 2011-07-22
 * ~04:00  Leave Cambridge and drive to Dover
 * 06:00  Ferry from Dover to Calais, landing ~8:30
 * 08:30  Drive across France, Belgium, Netherlands, enter Germany.
 * 12:30  Stop somewhere around Cologne for lunch
 * 13:30  Continue south and east, cross into Austria
 * 20:00  Stop in Graz for the night

Saturday 2011-07-23
 * 11:00  Leave Graz, head into Slovenia then Croatia
 * 14:00  Stop somewhere around Zagreb for lunch
 * 18:00  Head on to Bosnia, get to Banja Luka (depends on time spent for lunch etc.)

=== Debconf! ===

=== Trip back: reverse route ===
Sunday 2011-07-31
 * 06:00  Leave Banja Luka early morning. Head back through Bosnia, Croatia, Austria, Germany
 * 13:00  Stop somewhere near Regensburg for lunch
 * 14:00  Head on through Germany
 * 20:00  Stop in Brussels for the night

Monday 2011-08-01
 * 11:00  Leave Brussels, cross Belgium and France.
 * 14:00  Catch Ferry from Calais to Dover
 * 14:30  Head back from Dover
 * 16:30  Arrive in Cambridge and ''sleep''

(or there's an alternative route we could do on one leg of the trip, heading further south and
avoiding Belgium and the Netherlands. Very slightly further, but will add some variation. Interested?
Say so! Could include a quick run through Luxembourg if we want, for very little extra time/distance.)

'''Sledge:''' I'm expecting fuel costs of ~GBP 400 for the trip, plus tolls etc. for maybe ~GBP 100;
ferries cost ~GBP 100 for a car including 4 passengers. And there are 2 overnight hotel stops:
1 out and 1 back. Assuming reasonable prices for sharing hotel rooms,
I'm estimating a cost per person of *roughly* GBP 300 to GBP 350
per person for the travel. It'll probably be more expensive than the train or
plane options, but it includes more sight-seeing across Europe plus the flexibility
to do stuff while we're down there. I'm in for the road trip, and Jo says she
is too.

Insurance will be interesting: most UK insurers won't cover Bosnia, it seems. However, there are apparently insurance brokers at the border crossings from Croatia.

Note that in a couple of countries along the route, it is illegal to carry a radar detector. Additionally, it's indicated that you should carry the V5C. In Bosnia, you also need a tow rope.

Germany has special requirements in some cities for emission standards. Austria has a requirement for a special sticker if using the motorways. In Belgium, they sometimes ban cruise control in congestion.

This gives the following table. Where things are Recommended, that's because they're required for country registered vehicles, but not for foreign ones, but it may make things easier if you carry them.

DRL = Daytime running lights (dipped headlights during the day)<<BR>>
IDP = International Driving Permit<<BR>>
Camera disabled = You can have GPS, but you must disable the speed camera POI. Or you're not allowed to take it.<<BR>>

Lots of the raw info came from http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/atoz.html.

|| '''Country''' || '''Warning Triangle''' || '''Reflective Jacket(0)''' || '''First aid kit''' || '''Fire extinguisher''' || '''Beam benders''' || '''Bulbs''' || '''GB Sticker''' || '''IDP''' || '''GPS''' || '''DRL''' || '''Green card''' ||
|| France || Yes || Yes || No || No || Yes || No || Yes || No || When parked || No || No ||
|| Belgium || Yes || Yes || Rec. || Rec. || Yes || No || Yes || No || Ok || No || No ||
|| Netherlands || No || No || No || No || Yes || No || Yes || No || Ok || No || No ||
|| Germany || Rec. || No || Rec. || No || Yes || No || Yes || No || Cameras disabled || No || No ||
|| Austria || Yes || Yes || Yes || No || Yes || No || Yes || No || Ok || No || No ||
|| Slovenia || Yes || Yes || Rec. || Rec. || Yes || Rec. || Yes || Rec. || Ok || Yes || No ||
|| Croatia || Yes || Yes || Yes || No || Yes || Yes|| Yes || Rec. || Ok || No || Rec. ||
|| Bosnia-Herzegovina || Yes || Yes || Yes || No || Yes || Yes || Yes || Rec. || Cameras disabled || Yes || Yes ||
|| '''Whole trip''' || Yes || Yes || Yes || Rec. || Yes || Yes || Yes || Rec. (1) || Ok || Sometimes || Yes ||

'''Notes:'''<<BR>>
(0) Must be in the car, not the boot in some countries. One per vehicle is fine.<<BR>>
(1) compulsory if you don't have a photocard, and recommended if you do

DanielSilverstone estimated per-person for his car at approx 200+hotels/food so slightly cheaper 
than Sledge's due to slightly newer engine and slightly less leaden foot.  Flights looked to be 
around 250/person excl. local travel at either end, or other incurred expenses.  A more reasoned 
calculation by Daniel reached the all-in cost of roughly 300 GBP/person assuming 4-up in Daniel's 
car, but starting from Manchester and using Eurotunnel, thusly different fuel and channel-crossing 
costs.

=== Interested people ===

I'm wanting to book by the middle of April, so don't take too long.

||'''Name'''      ||'''Nick'''  ||'''DD?'''||'''Location'''||'''Willing and able to drive?'''||'''Car available?'''                    ||
||SteveMcIntyre   || Sledge     || Yes     || Cambridge    || Yes                            ||BMW 3-series estate, space for 4 people ||
||JoWarner        || Randombird || No      || Cambridge    || Yes                            ||with Sledge                             ||
|| NeilMcGovern   || Maulkin    || Yes     || Cambridge    || Yes                            || Mazda MX-5 cabriolet - Full! ||
|| NeilWilliams   || codehelp   || Yes     || Cambridge    || Yes                            || With Maulkin ||
||JaviMerino      || cibervicho || No      || Cambridge    || Yes                            || No   ||
||AndySimpkins    || Rattusrattus || No      || Southampton    || Yes                            ||BMW 3-series estate, space for 4 people  ||
||DavidLeggett    || Serbitar || No      || Southampton    || No - Can't drive              ||With Rattus  ||
|| DanielSilverstone || Kinnison || Yes    || Manchester   || Yes                            || VW Passat Estate.  Space for 3+driver, one of those may be reserved already. ||
|| ChrisButler    || crispy     || Yes     || Sheffield    || Yes                            || BMW 3-series saloon, space for 3-4 depending on luggage ||
||LarsWirzenius   || liw       || Yes      || Edinburgh    || Yes (inexperienced)            || nope ||

== Train ==

''Note: The train Munich - Zagreb continues along the Croation/Bosnien border. We could go until Novska (or Okucani) and organize a pickup bus from there for the remaining ~100 (70) km. (thkoch)''

Easiest route seems to be: London - Paris - Munich - Zagreb - Banja Luka

Use www.bahn.de to get information up to Zagreb.  Times between Zagreb and Banja Luka are available here: http://www.zfbh.ba/zfbhenx/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=56&Itemid=91 (Bosnian railways website as found on seat61; then select "Passenger traffic" and "International trains"; don't bother trying to book online or looking for a journey planner; the website is incomplete).

In the return direction journey takes about 26 hours; the Munich-Zagreb leg is a sleeper train.  You may want to get together with other Debconf attendees to share a sleeper cabin.

According to www.seat61.com (the standard reference website for this kind of thing) the Zagreb-Banja Luka trains cost Eur30 for Zagreb-Sarajevo, so it will be less than that, and you can buy the ticket in Zagreb.

Paris-Munich and Munich-Zagreb can be booked at www.bahn.de, and are best bought as singles on the day bookings open, to get good prices; bookings open 92 days in advance.  Total cost will be a few hundred euros each way.

Eurostar should be booked separately via the Eurostar website, after checking that www.bahn.de do not have a special offer for the connection you intend to make (they do sometimes have some very good deals from London).  Eurostar tickets are cheaper if bought as returns; bookings open 120 days in advance.

UK domestic train timetables are only available 12 weeks in advance, which is shorter than the booking horizon for the other trains.  So you will have to book your international trains before knowing what the situation is with the UK domestic services, and book the domestic trains later.  If you buy a non-flexible domestic ticket make sure that it is to "London International (CIV)" as otherwise if your international trains are delayed and you miss your UK train, your UK train company is likely to insist that your ticket is invalid and you should buy a full price walk-up fare.

Ian Jackson has posted his schedule to the debian-devel and debian-uk lists: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/03/msg00769.html

=== Example itineraries ===

==== Outbound via Zagreb ====

Three changes and seven countries: Eurostar via Paris, then choice of overnight leg; either Paris to Munich, or Munich to Zagreb sleepers:

||   11:32   Fri ||   16:02   Fri || '''London''' St Pancras           ||
|| __14:47__     || __19:17__     || '''Paris''' Gare du Nord          ||
||<-3:>                               ''walk 500 metres''              ||
||   15:24       ||   20:20   Fri || '''Paris''' Gare de l'Est         ||
|| __21:36__     || __07:16__ Sat ||<|2(>'''Munich''' Hbf              ||
||   23:40   Fri ||   08:27       ||
|| __08:40__ Sat || __17:10__     ||<|2(> '''Zagreb''' (Glavni Kolod.) ||
||   08:53    ## ||   21:24   Sat ||
|| __13:09__ Sat || __01:43__ Sun || '''Banja Luka'''                  ||

 ## This is a tight connection, particularly as you'll have to buy a ticket too.  If you miss this the next train is the 2124.  There may be a bus as an alternative.  Or, you could plan to spend the day in Zagreb.

==== Return via Zagreb ====

Overnight either Bosnia to Zagreb and Munich to Paris/Cologne, ''or'' Zagreb to Munich and daytime back via Brussels.

||<-3(>   02:21   Sun ||<-3(>   15:49   Sun *             ||      '''Banja Luka'''           ||
||<-3(> __06:44__     ||<-3(> __20:09__                   ||<|2(> '''Zagreb''' Glavni Kolod. ||
||<-3(>   12:30       ||<-3(>   21:15   Sun *             ||
||<-3(> __21:33__     ||<-3(> __06:15__ Mon               ||<|2(> '''Munich''' Hbf           ||
||   22:43   Sun ||   22:43 Sun ^ ||   22:43   Sun ||   06:50       ||   06:20     # ||   07:27      ||
||<:>  |         ||<:>  |         ||<:>  |         || __10:04__   % ||<:>  |         ||<:>  |         ||<|2(> '''Frankfurt''' Hbf        ||
||<:>  |         ||<:>  |         ||<:>  |         ||   10:16       ||<:>  |         ||<:>  |         ||
||<:>  |         || __05:56__ Mon ||<:>  |         ||<:>  |         ||<:>  |         || __12:05__     ||<|2(> '''Cologne''' Hbf          ||
||<:>  |         ||   06:44       ||<:>  |         ||   11:43       ||<:>  |         ||   12:43      ||
|| __06:17__ Mon ||<:>  |         ||<:>  |         ||<:>  |         ||<:>  |         ||<:>  |         ||<|2(> '''Metz''' Ville           ||
||   06:49       ||<:>  |         ||<:>  |         ||<:>  |         ||<:>  |         ||<:>  |         ||
|| __08:19__     ||<:>  |         || __09:23__ Mon ||<:>  |         || __12:34__     ||<:>  |         ||      '''Paris''' Gare de l'Est  ||
||   09:13       ||<:>  |         ||   11:13       ||<:>  |         ||   14:13       ||<:>  |         ||      '''Paris''' Gare du Nord   ||
||<:>  |         || __08:32__     ||<:>  |         || __13:35__     ||<:>  |         || __14:32__     ||<|2(> '''Brussels''' Midi-Zuid   ||
||<:>  |         ||   09:59 	  ||<:>  |         ||   14:29       ||<:>  |         ||   15:59      ||
|| __10:34__ Mon || __10:56__ Mon || __12:29__ Mon || __15:26__ Mon || __15:29__ Mon || __17:03__ Mon || '''London''' St Pancras         ||

   

Zürich 20:42
 1. # This is a very tight connection but there are lots of other connections.  Ask bahn.de for trains from Munich to London and pick a set of trains you like.  
 2. * Ian Jackson will be on these trains.
 3. % Or change at Frankfurt airport, 10 minutes later with a shorter connection (both time and distance).
 4. ^ Or board in Zurich at 20:42 to get two hours more bar time/sleep (leave earlier from Zagreb).

== Plane ==

Looking at the page at http://debconf11.debconf.org/travel.xhtml (and trying online too!), there are no useful flights to Banja Luka from the UK. Expedia says FAIL. Flying to Zagreb in Croatia and getting a bus for ~3 hours is suggested. Looking at that on Expedia, there are direct flights from LHR to ZAG from GBP250 ish, or GBP200 ish with a connection in Germany. No idea how much the bus will cost...